Broad-winged Hawk

[BlueTiercel]

I noticed there was a RSH thread so i figured why not a Broadwinged hawk thread? Anyway, these guys are mostly perch hunters as well snakes frogs chipmunks some birds etc, have seen plenty and seen a few nests which are easy to find if yer lookin a little bit. How do their feet compare to those of a Red shouldereds as well? I have no interest in flying one really but I am curious. thank you.

[Weasel]

We have them come through here on migration where thousands of them fly along the shore.

[BlueTiercel]

although they are a small buteo they look like busines when mama is on the nest staring daggers into you. Hmm, anyone done any rehab work with these two birds? which one is the most spirited? I am not sure why I lean this way but I would almost think the broadwinged would be a better falconry bird out of a BW or RHS if those were the only birds available...come on guys, argue with me or something.

[Tiercel78]

OK! BT,
I have worked with both while doing the rehab stuff in San Antonio. The BW has very small feet more suited to catching grass hoppers. Short stubby talons and a funny little bugeyed head. I think if you were leaning toward something like that I'd take a RSH. Though they are very vocal birds and do tend to hunt smaller prey. At least they have been trained to take feather and a few Grey squirrels. Couple of things I will say in there favor is speed and larger feet thatn the BW. I'd think with the all the ducks in Maine that you can use one like a generic Goshawk in the tidal areas. LOL.-Zach

[BlueTiercel]

Thanks Zach,
I have never had any close experience with either of these birds , thanks for the personal experience. Is the "generic goshawk" a RSH? Anyway, no, I don't want to fly either one of these birds personally, but I was a bit curious. I do see BW's with garter snakes and chipmunks as there is a nesting pair where i am working. As I m not planning on hunting these creatures I am not going to fly any of these birds. I got the feeling RSH ate pretty much the same stuff frogs, snakes chipmunks small rodents. not that RT's don't eat these thigs but I have also seen wild Rt's go after pheasent...and also here they are the most "spirited" buteo we have. also most english falconers would give their left index finger for one..etc. Are RSH any speedier than say a small tiercel RT? WEll, look forward to more of this.

[Tiercel78]

BT,
Yeah I was meaning the RSH for the generic GH. LoL!.
Your right the BW hunts pretty much the same things as the RSH. Even my tiercel RT has caught a few grasshoppers. Those RSH's are real fast and can out fly a RT real easy. If I could get over the screaming I'd try a imprint RSH on small ducks. Course ,RSH hawks scream a lot as a passage too. I think you'll do good with a RT.

[Weasel]

I had a RS outfly my FRT while the RS had a full grown squirrel in it's clutches. Don't know if the RS killed the squirrel or not, but it certainly wanted to keep and eat it. My RT wanted to eat both of them.....

[BlueTiercel]

FRT is that Fat Red Tail? Or Full-summed Red Tail.. Or as I might say, Friggen Red-tail (I say friggen often, ask my wife, "I friggen love you!") I am at a loss here...

Hmm that is a very interesting note Zach and Noel. RSH's sound speedy. I guess those shortish wings and long tail that makes them look the most accipitrine out of all buteos i have seen aren't for nothing. How big are their feet anyway? This deserves more consideration. I assume they are mostly ground prey oriented so would have smaller feet... though shorter toes obviously doesn't mean weaker..d**n, I just haven't really held many birds on the fist! Never mind flying one!
Oh Zach, I think I am going to be flying a kestrel though I love Redtails as well. I definitely want to fly plenty of both in my time. I love Goshawks but so far at a distance..those accipiters sound like a lot of work.

[Weasel]

Female Red tail..... The red shoulders I have held have fairly small feet. Not quite like a falcons skinny toes, but rather like a miniature version of an rt's feet. They primarily hunt reptiles and amphibians such as crayfish, frogs, turtles, snakes etc.. but they will and do often take other small mammals from what I have seen. If you see a red shouldered hawk, chances are that you are not too far away from a creek, river or some body of fresh water as they tend to nest and hunt in these areas.....Unfortunatly, squirrels seem to be common in these areas too so I end up running into quite a few RS hawks and they are NOISY!!!

[Grodus]

I'm not sure a BW wouldn't work out for hunting small birds, esp. from a car. I have information from a study ( ROsenfield and Gratson 1984 ) of prey items brought to the nest in a 19 day period. 30 birds were consumed in this period ranging in size from small sparrows to ruffed grouse. By biomass- 21.5% birds, 62.5% mammals, 12.7% amphibians, 2.2% reptiles.

Grodus

[BlueTiercel]

I have heard broadwingeds will hammer the "bumble bee" ruffed grouse, as in downy precocial young, when they find them. I bet most of the ruffed grouse were very young as ruffed grouse are a hell of a quarry and most goshawks take them through ambush and a variety of ambush techniques. as most hawks are opportunists they will take any reasonable prey item if the opportunity arises. I know they kill birds for sure though i wonder if their style is one that can be adapted to falconry. I am not a falconer by any means and have no expereince but from a biological point of view it seems that the accipiters are a hell of a lot more suitable for taking birds on a regular basis. A broadwinged is a small forrest dwelling buteo perfectly suited for it's habitat that effectivly perch hunts (and other stratagies I am sure) and uses what it has to get things done. I am sure it's not to fast off the fist and probably a good deal slower than a kestrel as well. i have seen wild kestrels fly down crows that were hauling ass and catch them to give them a whack when they got to familiar around a nest box. In that a broadwinged probably could be car hawked at smaller birds, though many might prove to be to agile for it, and then is car hawking the end of it? what else could a broadwinged be used in conjunction with a falconer to consistently put game in the bag? Maybe they can wait on for flushes of small game birds? I have no idea...I tend to think that they wouldn't be the best choice for this, and if there is a better bird for the quarry available then that bird should be the one flown. I would like to hear more about Matt mullinex form this as he has flown one. he flew it when not really a falconer but a kid with "dreams of falconry"as he puts it. He killed afew robins and stuff though, so i geuss that makes it falconry. Anyfriggenway. Although probably more useful than a marsh hawk they don't seem like a great choice for falconry. Though...marsh hawks have a light wingloading, ,maybe ringing flights at something or other haha, boy i just open up so many cans of worms..

[demarest]

Broadwing??? who would want to fly one of those klunkers? You'd be better of with one of those big female chickadees!
then again, Ive known a few females to take dead rats, but those are the real jewels. Honestly people.

[BlueTiercel]

Well, as you can tell by reading my posts i have no interest in flying this species, though i was interestedlearning more about them. The whole thread is pretty much hypothetical. sort of a "what if these two birds were all that were available to us".

[ccrobbins]

rwdesmaret said:

Broadwing??? who would want to fly one of those klunkers? You'd be better of with one of those big female chickadees!!!!! Wow, those guys can sure kick some sunflower seed butt!!!!
then again,Those bw's are sure feisty with those knats!!!! Ive even known a few females to take dead rats, but those are the real jewels. Honestly people.

I wouldn't flame. Unless you have tried and failed you cannot say that it can't be done.

[demarest]

well ok, if they were the only thing available thats one thing. Mullenix started his career with one but quickly moved on to the kestrel, and i doubt without good reason. It's kinda like in Europe, some types think they can take hare w/ the common kestrel. Not even mullenix can do that. 'cept we're not that seriousw/ the bw here across the pond. My point is that if anyone wants to hunt sparrows or other smlbrds, they're probably not going to use a bw, but a kestrel or the like. if they want to hawk rabbits they won't be using a bw, but a harris, rt, or maybe a gos. if they want to take ducks and upland birds, they would use a large longwing or shortwing. who's flaming? i'm only expressing disbelief. Who ever said it can't be done? i'm just sayin there are better things to do, unless you have regular access to fledgling grouse.
All other species that are used in falconry at all have at least some history in falconry that extend past a few falconers short use. The reason the tried and true have any history at all is that someone way back saw them hunting in the wild and thought, "gee, that looks like a good way to have fun and get food all in one shot." The reason the tried and true, right down to our little kestrel, are even tried, is because of something they were seen to have accomlished as wild birds.
I swear that no one will ever train a turtle to hunt atelope succesfully.No one has ever seen a turtle hunt antelope or anything similar, unless you consider lettuce akin to antelope. there are plenty of other things that can be trained to hunt antelope better and in a more entertaining fashion than can a turtle and no one is immpressed with its hunting skills, especially by comparison. while the situation of the turtle is a stretch from the situation of the broadwing, the point is the same. No one has ever been so immpressed with the way a bwh sits for hours on end awaiting a crawfish or sparrow to come its way so as to subtitute it for their kestrel or sharpshin, species which activly pursue catch and kill the same quarry with greater success and zeal. let's just say, if the broadwing were the only raptor, i'd fly a shrike.

Does anyone agree?