New falconry laws

[Allan]

Hey Noel...I,ve read your response and I,m proud of you............
I wont say too much about the other guys comments,as there are a lot of strong views on this thread,BUT to say that a parent reared captive bred Harris in the hands of a competent Austringer is not as good is as a passage is LUDRICOUS.
Allan....Squirrel Hawker...U.K..

[Yarak]

Ludicrous?...Hmmm,
So if I understand you correctly you can provide that bird with an equivalent education that it would recieve living wild? If that is what you are saying it.."it just aint so" 7 days 365 day a year that bird is foraging avoiding predators holding territory etc...IMO its only human arrogance that says "we" can somehow replace that.
Yarak (squirrel hawker, Tx USA )

[Weasel]

Well Yarak, I think it all depends on the definition of "good" in this context. A passage bird comes with ingrained methods and fears wheras a CB bird is a clean slate to do as you wish with. In the proper hands, a CB bird can be taught to take a very wide range of game and have no fear in doing so. Now this is not to say that a passage can't either.

[Yarak]

Exactly, those ingrained traits are double edged sword. Thie is no way that the "wild life" can be closely replicated. A wild passage bird is out there everyday of its life. Mortatlity speaks volumes, the same can be extrapolated from a late trapped bird. It just cannot be repilcated. This is just the opinion of one person. I truly believe that if you look at the natural history of raptors it is difficult to deny.
Yarak

[Allan]

Hey...for one minute....dont think I,m arrogant.
We dont have passage Harrises over here as they dont exist.
What I am saying,is that a competant Falconer can pick up a clean canvas and wed it onto the desired quarry available.The LAST thing I would want is to replicate what that Hawk would learn in the wild.
Id want a Hawk that regards my dog as its hunting partner,both sharing the bounties of the kill.
Id want a Hawk to think that being dragged through fencing by a Hare on a daily basis is Normal....I,ll hang on cos he,ll be here any minute to open her up and its grub time.... ...Theyd soon give up in the wild...Id want a Hawk that would drag down Squirrels on a daily basis to the floor for despatch........ONCE AGAIN...he,ll be here in a minute and its grub time....Normally only a chick leg.
The last thing Id want is a Harris that in the wild would have had a High proportion of smaller prey.
Do you honestly think that a wild Hawk would constantly go for larger,more dangerous quarry?,risking feather damage,bites and kicks....I somehow doubt it.
The last thing Id want is a passage with an inherent fear of dogs freeflying a wood taking every mouse in sight and then wandering across to the farm to take the new kittens wandering around the barn......Have a think about it......This type of blinkered quarry choice training has massive advantages.

[Yarak]

Allan,
Those are valid points. HHs in the desert regions feed on a many small mammals that is true, but where they live they also take Jackrabbits. A passager is just learning what to hunt so we can introduce the bird to many different setups based on quarry availabilty. Wild Rts follow tractors exploiting the human flushing machine. WE can capitalize on those same traits. We have not mentioned threat assessment of predator avoidance these are also very hard to teach. I have seen way too many passagers that flew great with dogs. Just one more thing for the hawk to exploit aiding in its success. Once the team starts taking game they form a very close relationship. The best way for you to experience my view point is to take 4 months off come stay with Minca and I. We will go to South Texas Trap you a passage Harris and turn you two loose on our game birds and mammals. You have an open invite.
Cheers,
Yarak

[Ooby]

I think allens statements stem from no experience with passage birds.

Plenty of people actually TRY and train the knowlege birds get in the wild. A key example would be hacking. Natures classroom cannot be equaled or duplicated.

[Weasel]

I wouldn't speak too soon Ooby. It wasn't too long ago when they where allowed to take wild birds. I talk to several folks that have. I think his statement is perfectly logical. You can teach a raptor to hunt anything,wild or CB, the only things the wild bird will have different would be parent taught issues like predator avoidance for example. All other issues to do with prey accuasition can be taught since it is already instinct to kill for food. Just look at aCB eyass. Give it a "toy" and it practices footing it. It's not playing with it, it's using its instinct much like a cat would with a toy mouse. In my opinion, the hunting aspect is irrelavent as they both, CB and wild, need to be pointed in the right direction. The wild bird, just has a head start in the hunting method area.

[Allan]

As you know guys,Ive already invited you both to Wales to hunt with me.I,d love to come over there.
I,d rather bring my own Hawk...........
If the offer is still open ......I ,ll come.

[Weasel]

Your more than welcome anytime. You should come over for the NAFA meet. ;D

[Allan]

Id rather spend a week with Yar,drinking ,eating,drinking,Showing him how good a CB Harris is and back to drinking and eating....
He,s given me an open invite............I somehow doubt that............Dont get me wrong Yar.....If your invite is valid..I will come with my Hawk.I aint joking.
P.mail me your telephone numbber and I.ll give you a call.

[frootdog]

Getting back on the subject of this thread.

Here are 2 letters to NAFA members from the president Darryl Perkins. He gave me permission to post both of them. He also wanted me to extend to all the members of this forum his invitation to join NAFA. If interested please visit thier website @ www.n-a-f-a.org

Dear Member:

As I’ve stated on many occasions, it is absolutely imperative that you respond before the May 10, 2005 deadline to the proposed changes to the federal falconry regulations. For your convenience, early tomorrow you will find 3 sample letters on the website to be used as guidelines when formulating your own response. Please do NOT simply copy these letters verbatim and substitute your own name. We do not, and I repeat, do NOT need form letters sent in. Form letters are not nearly as effective nor do they carry the same weight as a letter penned or authored by individuals. Of course there will be common themes throughout all of our letters but this will be because we support common causes and not merely rubber stamping a duplicate form.



You may mail in your comments, fax your comments, or e-mail your comments. All comments must reference RIN 1018-AG11 and must be received by May 10, 2005.



Occasionally I will highlight some particular text for effect or to emphasize a point. Sometimes I make comments tongue in cheek, or jokingly poke light at a particular subject or situation. Folks, this is not one of those times. If you care about the quality of falconry you will be allowed to practice in the future, then you must take this golden opportunity to respond to these proposed changes. With the constant upheaval in federal administrations and the growing anti-hunting sentiment we read about every day; it's important if not vital that we as falconers, and sportsmen and sportswomen, seize this chance to make things a little better for us in some cases and a heck of a lot better in others.



We have outlined out basic positions to the proposed changes on the website and urge you to support those positions and recommendations in your response. If you send your comments in via e-mail, please cc me at [e-mail].





Keep your powder dry!




Regards,


Darryl A. Perkins
NAFA President
14 Union Street
Blackstone, MA 01504-1111
[phone]
[phone] Cell
www.n-a-f-a.org/



Dear Member:

Counting today, there are only 13 days (9 business days) left before the
deadline (May 10, 2005) for submitting comments on the proposed changes to the
federal regulations. After sending out yesterdays email, I received confirmation
(cc) that 52 of you responded yesterday. On the one hand that's fantastic,
and to those of you who did respond yesterday or any time prior, you have my
sincere thanks, as well as the thanks of the conservation committee, eagle
committee, TAC, and Board of Directors and Officers. Keep in mind that you are not
responding for any of the committees I mentioned, or me, or the board or
officers. You're responding for the sport of falconry and more specifically, for
yourself. So that you own practice of the sport may be less restrictive.

If we average 52 responses a day for the next 13 days then that's still less
than a 1,000 responses, 676 to be exact. Every year we hold elections to
elect new directors. Every year only about 600 of you vote. Folks, that dog
don't hunt in this situation. I got a notice only yesterday that a bill had been
introduced in the great state of North Carolina to ban all "Exotic Animals."
Could this mean hybrids, or heaven forbid, white goshawks?
The anti's are joining forces. They are pooling resources and probing our
perimeter daily for any sign of weakness. We would be hard pressed to match
them dollar for dollar but dad-burn-it, if we're as passionate about the sport as
we claim to be, then we should blow them away with our response. I pray that
we do. Keep your powder dry!

Regards,


Darryl A. Perkins
NAFA President
14 Union Street
Blackstone, MA 01504-1111
[phone]
[phone] Cell
www.n-a-f-a.org/

[wes]

I have not heard anything since our state meeting in May about the status of the new Regs.
Has anyone heard anything? updates?
Wes

[Weasel]

I thought NAFA sent out a memo on it? I will see if I saved it.

[wes]

Thanks Weasel-, I tryed to get with Nafa, when I first got my premit. They Turned me off, as they told me to join them $$$$, before they would speak with me. when I was only trying to find out what this group is all about and if I would be intrested in the group. I'm Not saying Nafa is bad or anything, as I've seen many things they have done well. just rubbed me the wrong way, with this attiude, $$$$ first then they would talk to me.
Wes