Soar Hawking the RT

[ccrobbins]

Does anyone have any experience with this? I was wondering if it is a style that you can use sometimes and not others? Say if I was in an open field would I be able to do it? If this is something that you do is it possible to get the bird to also hunt from perch to perch? Does this make any sense?

[Riker]

my rt hunts from a soar when the conditions are right and the feeld is apropriate. i didnt teche it to him he jsut started to do it one day. he has killed from a soar and also hunts perch to perch and from a t perch. but it depends on the condtions of the day and the field were in.

[rt]

In the east where I live soar hawking is harder then out west due to the amount of trees we have its hard to find a place to soar hawk where Iam at but I have seen it done on videos and it is really productive.

[ccrobbins]

I was just wondering if you had any trouble getting the bird to hunt from perch to perch after a day of soaring?

[bobdale]

'Twould be the versitile RT, indeed, that soared and followed on at the same time!
My negligible guess would be to stick with one style or the other. I have never seen a RT flown in a soar. I'm not to sure if this is recognized as being a proper flight style for RTs. All the books I've read and people i know profess teaching the bird to follow.

[Weasel]

I have seen it done....and it made me nervous as heck....even though it wasn't my bird! The propor conditions are needed to do it reliably. An apprentice friend of mine has now done it successfully with a male RT and a female RT. THe male was flown in industrial parks and would use the updrafts from the buildings to gain a pitch of about 2-3 hundred feet. I have not seen his female hunt in the same setting yet, but I did see it soaring on the Chisolm trail ranch when we where hunting bunnies. We lost sight of it several times it went so far and high up. Every once in awhile it would come down and land in a nearby tree to check things out closely while we beat the brush. This same bird will perch hunt too. It has gotten about 30 bunnies this season, mostly from following perch to perch.....

[Strider]

Weasel said:

. THe male was flown in industrial parks and would use the updrafts from the buildings to gain a pitch of about 2-3 hundred feet......

Smart bird.

[rt]

cant beat a rt

[jondarp]

ccrobbins said:

Does anyone have any experience with this? I was wondering if it is a style that you can use sometimes and not others? Say if I was in an open field would I be able to do it? If this is something that you do is it possible to get the bird to also hunt from perch to perch? Does this make any sense?

Funny you should mention this. There's a good article by Bill Boni in the most recent edition of American Falconry. The article, whish is part of a series on flying a passage red-tail, has some good information on flying RTs in a soar. The author suggest the most important criteria is some open land in which to fly.

If you are in Texas, you might be able to find someplace to accomodate a soaring red-tail. Check out the article if you get a chance.

- Jon D.

[ccrobbins]

I have read that many times. I was just looking for someone who had actually done it and could let me know how many got away before they found one that would do it.

[Ooby]

you can teach just about any red tail to take game from the soar. It is the closest you can get to thier natural hunting technique. It isn't a trick, its in thier blood. You just need to find the right landscape and put the bird into the wind. 99 out of 100 will soar right on up.

Now all you gotta do is keep the birds attention. It was recommended to me by Scott Timmons (Road to Bakersfield/Yuba City guy) to start off with baggies. Put bird into soar, kick a few bushes, drop baggy.

Its just like teaching your bird that game originates from you, but you gotta do it while they are in a soar. Re-enforce that soaring behaviour by flushing rabbits.

Telemetry is always a good idea though because they could see a bunny a couple of miles off. However one of the times my bird took into a thermal she went after something way off down a valley, missed, and came right back.

Don't think of it as something thats really hard to do. As long as your bird is keyed in on you durring the hunt, and the wind conditions are right, your bird will soar.

Slope soaring is great. Find a small hill with the wind hitting it and you will get great thermals.

[Weasel]

Actually they won't do it as naturally as you think since this is not their natural means of accuiring food.....Sitting on a perch and waiting for a rat to move in the grass is their normal modus operandi.It goes with the same theory why it is very difficult to trap an RT from a soar. I think that they do it more as a means of both thermoregulation and means of travel. Remember that we are dealing with calorie counting birds. They are extreemely watchful of their caloric output and try to use as little of it as possible which is why they are more often than not seen on perches hunting. Those big broad wings are designed to get them from one hunting area to the next with the least effort as possible. While they can and do soar hawk in the wild, I would not say that they do it as a common means. Think about this....If I where to go into an empty field with an RT...No trees within a half mile radius. I turn the bird loose and what will it do? It will more than likely fly to the tree 1/2 mile away and sit. Now, like you said, to get a bird to regularly take game from a soar, you must prove to the hawk that this means provides the best chance at increasing it's caloric intake. This means making sure to produce game on an almost clockwork like schedule for the bird when it is soaring. A Red tail is a pure oppurtunist and will very quickly learn that this coloric output by soaring(beit a small amount) is rewarded by a greater input. If game is not bumped up in front off the bird regularly at first then it will simply find a perch to sit on.....OK, I'm off my soap box for now....

[Ooby]

I disagree. Mainly because i have been told the exact opposite by my sponsor and other well known people who soar thier hawks.

It may also have to do with the terrain. So Cal is very hilly, so more often than not, the birds you see perching are all passagers. It is very rare to see hag birds perched. The majority of the time i see hag red tails they are soaring on thermals coming off the hills and mountains. My bird on a couple of occasions totally bailed from a top notch perch in order to thermal up, while at hunting weight and hungry. So caloric intake or not, she decided she had a better chance at catching something from way up in the air.

I have never gone up to a hill and just tossed her into the wind, but thats exactly what i was told to do by my sponsor and scott timmons Baggies in hand, garnished lure, and telemetry on of course.

I also can't see how soaring in a thermal requires lots of energy. Especially given the increase of the effective "killing cone" the bird gains from that height.

[Weasel]

Well, I didn't say that it was a large increase in coloric expendature. In fact I said the exact opposite. And I see hags all day long sitting on poles. Have you ever tried to trap a bird from a soar? I have on many occations just to se what would happen....nothing. This is not to say that it is not possible as Yarak trapped his bird from a soar.....granted she came in to steal the food away from a tiercel on the trap.....I have tossed in plain sight of the birds on many occations with absolutely no attempts at the trap. They do thermoregulate by soaring and for lack of a better word, they do it for the sheer ability that they can. They also do hunt from a soar as well, but nowhere near as much as they do from a pole perch.

[Ooby]

Again, i see more hags soaring than i do perched. I guess we can just agree to dissagree. I have never thrown a trap for a bird in a soar, simply because of lack of experience. My trapping area had passage birds on every other telephone pole.

Although i will now try and throw the trap for soaring birds, just because of this conversation to see what happens

I seriously do think it has to do with terrain though. With texas being so flat, and southern CA being so hilly. Perhaps its just easier for them to find a good thermal and kick back in it around here than it is in TX. /shrug